Odds and Ends
Well, I've decided to comment on Ira's post, and also to clean up a few loose ends.
I just read Meg McGinty's blog that she referenced after the wine tasting. I like it a lot and there is a particularly good essay up now. Something that I have thought a lot about, and I think many of you also. www.megmcginty.blogspot.com
I want to add to my wish list: cranium if it isn't there, and the sign you see in reststop bathrooms "Employees must wash hands before returning to work"
I got my photo in the paper with the other scouts. And I am smiling big, and wearing my uniform proudly. It made me feel good.
Ira, I can't edit your comments, I can only un-list them, and I didn't want to do that. You make some good points, and maybe it is my own naivety, but in my opinion, you could and probably almost wholly were accepted for the year you lived in the US. Yes, I think there were always be people critical of "foreigners" but it is rather anti-American to dwell on where people are from. I think we concentrate on much more where you are going, so if you had, or have, the desire, I think in a very short time you can be completely integrated into America. I have read many articles by terrorism experts that say this is why we have had so few terrorist acts. After September 11, there were subsequent attacks in several European countries, but no major one in the US. Added to the riots that have been all too common recently, and I think it shows how truly accepting we are. Thoughts from others on my opinions or objectiveness?
I do agree that Americans all too often don't listen to the answers to questions they ask, but maybe this is human, because I have definitely experienced here much more than I would have expected. I have always attributed it to my lack of language expression and their lack of patience. I will also agree that high school in America is EXTREMELY image conscience and there are a lot of people that will say or do what they think will earn them the best status, but perhaps not make them the best person. I think this is a transition though, that most Americans come through realizing that they must be true to themselves and fair to others.
And the question I asked became more and more forthwith from the time it developed out of a discussion about diversity in my class to when I was asking those I consider my closest friends here. It was simply, 'After how long, or under what circumstances, would you consider me Ukrainian?' And the answer became more and more straight forward too. I agree Ukrainians will not pretend to be your friend. They will always tell you what they think, and this case it was, 'Nothing and no amount of time; we could never truly consider you Ukrainian.' It was the straightforwardness, in a culture known for its subtlety and face-saving that cut so deep.
Finally, yes, I think I was rather accepted in Italy, though I never just asked; maybe I wasn't, but the personal interactions I had there were definitely similar in some ways to Ukrainian ones of similar situations, and very different also. And, yes, there are always people that make you feel that you don't belong, but these are not usually people I really want to keep company with anyway. Here it has been the very people that have made me feel that I belonged, that I do enjoy their company, that I have been so surprised by. I think I have made this into a much bigger deal than I meant to. I understand the circumstances. As I said, at some level I think I always have; it was just a bit emotional last week.
posted by jjs @ 10:27 AM
3 Comments:
I'm having some trouble understanding what you mean by "acceptance." I have several friends here in the US whom I accept as close friends and don't act any differently around them than I would around other same-level-of-friendship people. However, I will never think of them as American. I was on a cellphone in a crowded elevator once (something I usually avoid) talking to a friend from Dubai and discovered that she'd never tried an M&M. She'd been in the US for at least 5 years. Though this is a little tiny difference between the two of us (and all the shocked, laughing people in the elevator) it makes her non-American-ness very salient at times.
Little things like M&Ms can be learned, the longer she's in the US, but she'll never understand a conversation about Punky Brewster or Fraggle Rock. Her childhood sand-skiing experiences make her different from most Americans and those differences, added up, mean she will never be American.
I think the same thing happens within America in subcultures, as well, but on a smaller scale. Growing up in south Florida and living in North Carolina for four years and Emory (full of Northerners) for three years has shown me that I will always feel different from both Southerners and Northerners. In the South I was called "Yankee" and at Emory someone from Vermont called me "the stereotypical Southern belle" but I am really neither, having grown up in a place where streams are novelties and snow is a thing you only see on vacation. I was accepted as friend by people in each of these places, but no one ever thought I was a member of the culture they grew up in.
I think a person's experiences are a major part of their selves and will always affect future social experiences and relationships. Maybe the big difference between the US and Ukraine is the closeness I can have with my friend from Dubai, despite our differences? Is that what you mean by acceptance?
hello john dear,
please send me your mailing address, yes?
write2kimberlina[at]gmail.com
I'm afraid i must disagree with KT on this one (not a nice thing to do to someone you don't know).
I believe that the United States is the ONLY country that a foriegner can be accepted. Obviously this is because we are the cultural and ethnic melting pot, and the citizenship process is straight-forward and commonplace. But also because the country is so huge. We tend to classify our own little subculture, such as white-middle-class, as American. And those who are not in it are not "American". Some examples, I am white, raised in suburban NH but i couldn't have a conversation about Fraggle Rock. Why? Because (though i am a serious Muppet fan), i have only seen it maybe once because my family did not have cable until i was in High school. Also, did you know that there are Sand Dunes in Colorado? And you can go sand skiing? (and people do)
John, i don't know how much news you get but there is alot of talk going on about immigration, mostly from Mexico. Here in Denver, where almost no one on my building's nighttime cleaning staff speaks English, this is a big deal. Out west, signs and services are increasingly in Spanish and English (you lived in Cali. for a bit right?). And i met a taxi driver in Miami who said he'd been here 25 years, i could hardly understand him! My point is that many of the participants in the Marches that have swept the country are citizens of hispanic or Black descent. Do people consider them American (except for a small minority of Rednecks from Alabama)?? YES! Have they all had m&m's? No. I recently returned from a trip to Haiti, and the difference between being raised there and in Miami is proabably less than the difference between Urban Chicago and Rural Iowa, but a Haitian is clearly NOT American in many ways, until he has spent several years living here.
The thing that i find interesting is that there are some places where one might be considered American, even though they are NOT. For example the upper classes in India, they speak english fluently, watch American TV and movies, eat American food, and even work for companies like Intel with engineering degrees from American schools. Are these people Americans even though they hold a different Passport (an ugly one at that)?
I also find it interesting that you thought you might be accepted as Ukrainian. Obviously, given the above, i understand why. But in every country i have travelled (except Canada), i always felt like there were natives and foreigners. I have a friend who lived in Thailand for many years, spoke Thai fluently. But was never accepted, people continued to speak english to him. His white skin stood out too much.
ok, i have rambled enough. Hope you are well and not too depressed over not being Ukrainian :)
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